Aristotle says that the aim of education
is to make the pupil like and dislike what he ought.
–C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man
I discussed this in my talk at our local conference this year: this implies that children do not always like what they ought to like. My concern is that I’ve come across a lot of mothers lately who are so concerned that their children enjoy school that they avoid things that their children don’t like. The curriculum is then designed entirely around the child’s current interests — upon his natural likes and dislikes.
Listen to this post as a podcast:
Here’s a rundown of what I’ve seen and heard:
- My child doesn’t enjoy classical music, so we’ll skip that part.
- My child doesn’t find art interesting, is it okay to skip it?
- My child prefers the indoors to the outdoors. Do we really have to do nature study?
- My child hates poetry, can we stop reading it?
- My child doesn’t like this book, so what substitute would you suggest?
My child doesn’t like x, so we’ll do y instead!
I’m not saying there is a never a reason to change out a book. We really do want our children to connect with what is being studied.
But here is something to think about: when a person — a child, or an adult — doesn’t like something that is good, there is something wrong with the person, not with the good thing.
God made a beautiful, wonderful world out there, and some of the greatest triumphs of humanity have been in music, art, literature, and, yes, even poetry.
Especially poetry.
If our children do not have a taste for poetry, for example, that doesn’t mean we trade it out for something they find more to their tastes. It means, first, that we might need start with ourselves, because love is often contagious.
Secondly, it means we need to think of ways to woo.
Sometimes wooing can be very, very simple. Years ago I listened to a lecture by the conductor John Hodges. He said in regard to music (and then by extension to all types of cultural artifacts) that “exposure breeds taste.”
It’s really much like teaching children to eat new foods.
A couple years ago I discovered a love for Brussels sprouts. When I found out that they also pack a great nutritional punch, I began to serve them weekly. My children? Well, out of the four, only one had a natural affinity. With the others, I’ve had varying levels of success. One acquired the taste after about a month (four or five tries). With another, it took almost a year (so let’s say 45 tries). There’s still one hold out. She’s tasted them close to 100 times and still doesn’t usually want to eat more than two bites. She tolerates them, but she doesn’t love them. She is, however, familiar enough to be able to eat them without throwing a fit or making a face.
Out of a common genetic pool, only one child liked this food naturally. That’s 25%. In other words, 75% of Vencel children hated Brussels sprouts with a passion on Day 1. With regular tasting (as in: “you must eat two bites before leaving the table”), we turned those odds around. Now, 75% of Vencel children like Brussels sprouts, and 25% tolerate them. Please note that no one hates them.
I know it’s only a vegetable, but it’s still a story of changing tastes.
That’s one of the ways we grow up, right? We learn to eat like adults — we can have a salad or some green beans or a steak (without ketchup!) rather than just cheese and starches.
Well, let’s face it. A lot of children — I’d say most — want to focus on the intellectual cheese and starches. Oh sure, there’s the rare genius who is literally interested in everything, but there is a reason why we say the exception proves the rule.
Because it does.
Ahem.
Appreciating the more sophisticated parts of human culture, or the things that require mental effort (like math), takes time and maturity. A palate is never developed if it’s fed on the same cheese and starches for two decades. It’s developed by experiencing tastes that are new and different.
When we say, my child doesn’t like x so I’m going to take it right on out of the curriculum, we’re essentially allowing that child to eventually enter into the world with an underdeveloped palate.
Childhood is a very special time. In it, we can expand our tastes and interests in ways that it is very difficult to do in adulthood, after all our bones have fused. I always think of what Charlotte Mason said about the education of the poet Goethe (a certifiable genius) in her fifth volume:
Everything which had been initiated in Goethe’s education came to conspicuous development; but, also, nothing which had been overlooked in his education arrived to him in after life.
You know what? My own life is very similar. I bet yours is, too. It is the things to which my parents or grandparents or babysitters or teachers or family friends introduced me that have come to fruition in adulthood.
Camping? No one ever introduced me to camping. This explains so much.
So here’s my point (you were hoping I’d get to it, right?): when a child rejects something good, they need our help. This is not normally the time to back down and coddle. It is, however, the time to consider the ways in which to romance the child’s heart. I’m not saying the best idea is to force feed him a plateful of vegetables.
We’re the teacher, right (no matter how wrong that grammar is)? The goal of education is to come to love what is lovely, hate what is hateful, delight in what is delightful. As C.S. Lewis wrote:
The little human animal will not at first have the right responses. It must be trained to feel pleasure, liking, disgust, and hatred at those things which really are pleasant, likeable, disgusting and hateful.
Good teachers have to keep this in mind, and grow thick skin. They know they’re going to introduce some things that aren’t automatically embraced and celebrated by children who are, though persons, still persons of very limited experience and understanding.
Sometimes, we just have to be honest.
Today we’re going to spend a little bit of time doing something you don’t like. Studying something you don’t find interesting. Thinking about something you would rather not think about. And we’re going to do this because your feelings about this thing are totally and completely wrong. But that’s okay. You will learn to affirm the greatness of those who came before, and we’ll do it one little bite at a time … together.
Look! I’ll go first.
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35 Comments
I don’t think it wise to judge feelings as right or wrong. Feelings just are. They ride with us on our internal bus. But it is wrong to let feelings drive the bus. Another way to work with feelings is to say, “You’re feeling bored with this poem, I understand. The poem itself is not boring, it’s just how you’re feeling right now.” Maybe take a break and come back to it when the feelings are a little less intense. The more compassionate and patient we are in honoring our feelings (note, honoring does not mean acting on them) the more likely we are to be at peace with ourselves and able to move forward with doing the right thing. Perhaps this helps too in the discussion you had with Sallie?
I needed this today! Thanks Brandy. 🙂
You’re welcome … but I’m sorry you *needed* it. Hang in there! ♥
What a wonderful post! So much of what drives society today is based on what is easy or natural in our human condition. It is not the carnal self we should coddle, but the higher self we must nurture. This is where self-discipline and self-regulation come from. Learning to enjoy the difficult things is so very important in developing character and a well rounded, healthy mind in adulthood. Bravo!
Thank you! I greet so tired if looking for advice regarding teaching things your kids don’t enjoy and hearing, ‘SKIP IT’ or the like. To me all you teach them is if they don’t like something then they don’t have to deal with it. Which is not realistic at all. I am struggling with my 9 and 11 year old right now and am at my wits end. Like about to pack their stuff up tomorrow and send them to public school. However, in essence I’d be doing the same thing. Thanks again. Great read.
[…] I read Brandy’s fabulous (older) post “My child doesn’t like X: Homeschooling Meets Resistance” over at afterthoughtsblog.net, I would like to share a few excellent quotes from her post […]
Just brilliant!
It is tricky to find the balance between delight-directed studies and backing off subjects our child avoids and resists.
I offer my child options within the subject, pretty much like saying, “Which of these poets should we start with?” or, “Do you want to write your narrations in a minibook or on a notebook page?”
I love your ‘food’ analogy. Planning a complete curriculum is like menu planning. Sometimes we have to include the unwanted ingredient in a delightful combination. Sometimes it is out in the open and needs to be tackled head-on. A great challenge!
Welcome to Afterthoughts, Jennifer. 🙂
Wow.. just.. amazing.
Great post! If given a choice, I would have stayed in all day curled up with a book. Fortunately, my mother forced us outdoors. I learned to make mudpies, swam in the pond, collected starfish, found cool broken dishes at the beach, picked blackberries and blueberries, went cod jigging, and even built a cabin (well, the best a bunch of kids can manage). I am glad we were forced outdoors.
There are so many things I discovered as an adult because of homeschooling: Emily Dickinson poetry, Schubert (I had already discovered Handel’s Messiah, Bach, Vivaldi and Mozart), art (Vermeer and Van Gogh), Spanish, bird watching, nature stud and walks, etc. The other day, I had the most fun helping a girl at our school build a mini-terrarium for her pet millipede. Yeah, I touched it!
“But here is something to think about: when a person–a child, or an adult–doesn’t like something that is good, there is something wrong with the person, not with the good thing.”
Okay, I’ll be the bad guy. I don’t agree with this. (And I probably wouldn’t write this on a random blog, but since you and I know each other well online I’ll share my thoughts.)
Re: foods… For years there have been foods I have avoided eating because I never felt well when I ate them. I was not allergic, but they did not sit right with me. They are all foods that are good for me. Bananas, watermelon, cantaloupe, tomatoes, etc. The list is really quite long. Lo and behold I discover well into my 40’s there is a reason for it. It’s called Oral Allergy Syndrome. If you have certain allergies to say grass, trees, etc. there are certain foods that will manifest symptoms very much like an allergy. My previous allergist never explained this to me, but my new one did. It was like a lightbulb went on for me.
I can’t tell you how much harassment I’ve had from people over the years because I cannot stand to eat a raw tomato. It’s vile to me. Vile. I don’t just dislike them. I hate them. Well, now I know why. My body doesn’t like them.
So it really bothers me to hear people say that children should be forced to eat something or forced to develop a taste for something. My mom used to try to bribe me with money to eat tomatoes. So many people said that I just hadn’t had a good one, etc. and if I just tried them more often I would like them. It would never have mattered. My body rejected tomatoes for a reason.
Re: not liking certain things educationally… Again, I understand to a point what you are saying, Brandy, but I still don’t completely agree. Every child is different and God has different purposes for each one. Should we want our children to have a well-rounded and thorough education? Of course. But I’m not convinced that means every child has to fall lock step with everything we think they should like. I’m no Charlotte Mason expert so I can’t even point to something in her writings related to this particular point. But I can tell you that I believe the Holy Spirit guides my homeschooling and there have been things I have set aside or removed because I felt that it was not for Caroline and God’s purposes for her.
Maybe it is because Caroline is a highly-sensitive child. Maybe it is because I have a child who is so unlike me in many ways. But the idea of imposing an educational agenda on a child because we think it is good for them sends up red flags and makes me uncomfortable. I’ve been camping many times and nothing is every going to make me like it. I love God’s creation, but prefer to watch it from inside the house or the car on a drive. I’m not an outside person (allergies, bugs, dirt….) I’m just not an outside person and no amount of being outside is going to change that.
Bottom line – Children are individuals and they are not required to love every good thing in the world. In my mind they aren’t even required to like every good thing in the world. If God wanted us all to love everything good He would not have given us different gifts, personalities and likes/dislikes.
Hi Sallie,
I haven’t been ignoring you, I just haven’t had enough time to sit down and really write you a meaningful response. 🙂
As far as the food analogy goes, I admit there are exceptions to the rule. *In general* one of the ways in that adults are different from children is that their tastes mature. They are able to eat a broader variety of foods, and to do it joyously, or at the very least politely and in a way that does not disrupt table fellowship. But of *course* allergies are an exception. As the mother of formerly allergic children, I completely understand not eating foods one is allergic to, and I also understand what a pain it can be when you are a allergic to many things. I also understand you raising your daughter in a way that you are sensitive to the fact that she may have inherited allergies from you. Allergic parents *do* often have allergic children.
I don’t think, however, that exceptions change the rule. It is still true that children are often born picky eaters and that they have to “become a man” in this regard–they have to get off of mother’s milk and eat meat and vegetables.
Also, severely picky eaters tend to be zinc deficient, and I treat my children for zinc deficiency {if they have one–there are ways to test}–before I ever consider fighting that battle.
In regard to the rest of it, I must agreeably disagree. 🙂 I do not think that gifting and personality comes into play when it comes to learning to love the world God has made and the greatest things man has done.
I believe children are born with disordered affections–some of them more than others–and that one of the primary tasks of education is to pull them up out of themselves and help them to love and make accurate judgments about art, literature, or even the acts of man in history. Obviously, this is an ideal. I don’t believe that any man has been able to love perfectly, nor to judge perfectly. But I still hold to the ideal as the standard to which it is our goal to attain.
In many ways, what I’m saying is that through education we help the child become more like God. He must learn to love math because God is mathematical, He hung the heavens and orchestrated creation in a mathematical way. To do math well is to be more like Him than we were previously. God is an artist, and so we learn to appreciate art. Some of us even learn to make things well. In these ways, we glorify Him.
When I said that if we do not love something that is lovely, *we* are the ones who are defective, I was loosely quoting CS Lewis’s Abolition of Man. He was telling the story of Coleridge at the waterfall. When two tourists make different assessments of a waterfall, Coleridge declares one right and one wrong–or, more aptly–one just and one unjust. He can only do this if there is an objective standard for beauty. And in the course of the story we realize that all parties to the conversation–Coleridge plus the two tourists–can only have this conversation because they all acknowledged the existence of this objective standard.
It is a very new idea that I am free to like and dislike whatever I feel like liking and disliking. For most of history, there were standards to which it was our duty to rise. We were supposed to “grow up” out of our disordered, temperamental passions. Being more of a medievalist when it comes to my view of man and his purposes, I still believe that man has a duty to like and dislike what he ought, and that education helps him along in this regard. To come full circle, this is why Aristotle that this is the goal of education, and why Lewis quoted him. This is the view of pre-modern education.
I tend to be a pre-modernist, except that I have a deep appreciation for indoor plumbing and central air. 🙂
Brandy,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. 🙂
Re: the foods… I still respectfully disagree. I never knew I had food sensitivities that were linked to significant environmental allergies. If my parents had followed your thinking, they would have continually forced me to eat something to which my body was reacting in a negative way. When I told my mom I didn’t like raw tomatoes and avoided them at all costs, it was more than me simply needing to be trained to like something to be more like an adult. My body was telling me not to eat them. There were other foods that I did eat and like, but stopped eating because they started making me feel weird. Cantaloupe, for example, I really like but stopped eating because of how it made me feel. Those were things that happened because my environmental allergies were worsening over time.
I know what you are saying about exceptions not changing the rule. But my point is that I am sincerely concerned for children who have a legitimate aversion to a food being forced to eat it over and over and over again. I am thankful that my parents let me be a picky eater. I really feel like it was God’s grace in my life to protect me from worse problems. There are too many parents who feel they have the right to demand that their child do this or that because it is good for them to the detriment of their child. I am not saying this is true in your case. I’m simply presenting to your readers another way of looking at a situation that may seem cut and dried to many people, but isn’t always.
Then there are the highly sensitive children who deal with a whole additional set of factors. 🙂
I guess because of all the things I’ve experienced I tend to err on the side of grace in matters like this. I don’t think being a picky eater has been a detriment to my spiritual life and I don’t think there is anything in the Scriptures that requires a child to learn to like everything set before her. Vegetables are not a hill I’m prepared to die on. 🙂 I realize you see it differently. I simply don’t think it is as cut and dried as I felt you presented it here.
I have to run so I’ll have to respond to the second half another time! 🙂
I appreciate you presenting the other side because you *do* makes points worth listening to, and I know that allergies are real.
Just to clarify–and I don’t think you necessarily took it this way, but just in case–the purpose of the post was *not* to make a point about eating vegetables, rather, the Brussels sprouts story was supposed to be an analogy for exposure breeding taste. I could have made the case that after exposing my child to jazz music over and over, he finally liked it, when at first he didn’t, but I didn’t think it was something people could relate to quite as well. So I chose the vegetable analogy. 🙂
I understand that the point of the post wasn’t about vegetables. 🙂
I was discussing this with David this evening, trying to put my finger on what it was about this post that compelled me to speak up. I finally realized what it was.
Over the past year or two I’ve read so many stories written by adults who were homeschooled and now hate homeschooling, their parents, the church or some combination thereof. In the vast majority of the cases it was the rigidity and inflexibility of their childhood experience that fueled their falling away (for lack of a better term). As children they felt that they had no voice and were ruled by parents who thought they knew best about everything.
When I see posts written by homeschoolers and/or Christians that seem to imply or even say that children don’t know what is best for them and must be trained to like everything that the parent thinks they should like (whether it is books, music or foods)… It sends up red flags. Yes, the Scriptures say that folly is bound up in the heart of a child. But I see too many parents online who seem to be running their children through a program rather than studying their children as individuals to discover what God has for them as individuals. I think this is why I have never embraced Charlotte Mason or Ambleside. As much as I admire so much of it, the rigidity of it concerns me. While some might find the structure of it appealing, I find it suffocating.
Anyway, I hope that helps you understand where I am coming from. Believe me when I say that I want Caroline to embrace the good that God has created. I want her to appreciate things that are timeless and of great worth. I think you know my heart well enough to know that, but for the others reading this who don’t know me I want to make that clear. I greatly value the truth and goodness of God. But I’m not convinced that it means I must try to compel her to love on demand everything that might be considered “good” in God’s creation.
I know that to some extent we have to agree to disagree because our philosophies of education are different, but I was still thinking about this, so I thought I’d add a couple notes to this conversation.
The first is: I have also heard stories about rigidity/inflexibility. I can see how this post might sound that way. To give a little background, I wrote this in response to seeing a number of posts and articles and FB posts, etc. that all essentially dismissed the idea that we can grow to love something that we initially reject; that we can acquire a taste. This was my attempt to swing the pendulum back the other way a bit.
I don’t think of it as being the same vein as the rigid homeschool families you brought up, and I was trying to think of why. I think I came up with a couple reasons. The first is that I am not the standard. In many ways, my own love falls short (and I share that with my children, too). The rigid families I have read about are usually trying to stop their children from loving something they disagree with. But here, I’m talking about trying to cultivate loves that are liking. And I don’t mean requiring them. I mean simply exposing children to things so that love has a chance to grow. I wouldn’t spend lots of hours–or even too many minutes–on something a child is trying to reject, but if I really thought it was good, I wouldn’t get rid of it, either, because I think love grows.
Actually, I know love grows. My father exposed me to all sorts of things I initially rejected. I read good literature and biographies as a teen because he sort of “made” me. About halfway through, I realized I liked it. So maybe that is the personal piece of this puzzle. 🙂
I am curious what you think about what Aristotle said, and about Augustine and Lewis after him. They are all basically saying that we are born needing to have our loves directed. They vary, of course, on how to actually accomplish that. Do you think that they were wrong? You don’t have to answer that if you don’t want to, but I am curious to know if you are willing to answer. 🙂
ps. I know that you want her to love good things! 🙂
Sallie,
Thank you. I agree 100%. There are many great points brought up in this post but I also found myself disagreeing strongly with a few things. Love what you said. 🙂
Another brilliant post, Brandy. Posting this so I can follow along with the comments.:)
Excellent post, Brandy! I can’t wait to hear your talk!
So good, thank you! Last school year, when I had what I call my “year of off-my-rocker,” this was so me. I just tried everything with my kids including being totally child centered and it was a disaster. (Why I didn’t just stick with AO, which I knew worked, is beyond me, but sometimes we have to travel to the otherside to appreciate where we live) Anyway, what you say here is so true. Sometimes they just don’t like something they should and we need to help them like it. Giving in to every whim = utter chaos and undernourishment.
Amy I have really appreciated your words of experience lately! I’ve seen it here and on the AO Forum and I hope people are listening to what you are sharing.
AMEN! I can’t like this post enough. Seriously, so many homeschool parents (and all teachers & parents for that matter) NEED to understand this.
I agree. I’ve seen a lot of quitting and backing down lately, and it really concerns me. 🙁
I definitely agree with this. It drives me crazy when I see it online.
My problem is actually *implementing* this sort of thinking. I tend to bull-dog, just do it already, brute force. This ties into Mystie’s quote yesterday about crowd control and leadership.
[sigh]
I had to laugh as I imagined you force feeding your children vegetables…and poetry. 🙂
*raises hand as one who has literally force fed children.* (and it worked, too….)
Every one of mine has had that happen once or twice, to just get the stupid thing on their tongues, and then they stop whining and talking and finish what they had to finish. So often the first plunge, the start, is the hardest part.
You Mean Mommy, you. 😉
So, so what I needed today. I started kindergarten with my oldest (a 5yo boy) on Monday, and he has so far declared that he is OK with it but that he really would like to go to “real school” like his best friends. At real school they get prizes for good behaviour and they do hard workbooks and it is not boring. I think the Circle Time is hardest for him, as he does not consider music and poetry and bible reading and art to be big-kid school, not to mention the fact that it is boring. I listen to him, as he has stated all this very sensitively and respectfully, but I am struggling with the desire to give up on things like Circle Time to help him like it more. And how could I explain to him that I am developing his affections? After years of preparing for homeschooling I feel like I am not even sure how to explain to him why we are doing it rather than sending him to school like his friends.
Axon, I am so sorry. That is so hard! Do you have other homeschoolers near you, where you can find some homeschooled friends for him?
You do not have to give up Circle Time, but you could try making it short and sweet. Once he realizes he doesn’t have to bear it for two hours his resistance might go down. 🙂 I had one who thought she hated Circle Time until I starting doing the Burgess Bird Book during that time. I’d read a bit and then they would have a coloring page that was well drawn and they’d try to color it to look like the bird (using the description in the book plus a field guide). That was right up her alley and totally helped her accept Circle Time as part of the day…
Just a few thoughts. I’ll pray for you!
Axon, several of mine have had a hard time with Circle Time, too. Some of it was just their bad attitude, some of it was my own bad attitude (the “crowd control” and “brute force it” attitude Dawn mentioned), and some of it was that we were rubbing each other the wrong way the entire time. Keep it short, keep upbeat yourself, don’t feel like you have to do everything you see everyone else doing (especially at 5!). If you can find a way to give him a little bit of a “vote” during the time, it helps with getting buy-in, in my experience. Things like: pick which song (from the assortment you have selected), pick which page from the poetry book we’ll read (that gets them paging through it, too, which helps with the exposure thing), should we do art next or reading next?, would you like to stand or sit for this song?….when I could give my boys an option or two that were both acceptable to me, but let them take a bit of control and have a voice, they were much less resistant. And, we kept at it, and now it’s both their favorite thing (they are 10 & 8 now, and I let them pick their poems they are memorizing, and still give them other ways to have a voice, without their whims steering the ship). Also, if there is a lot of listening time, see if you can find options for his hands, so he doesn’t have to just sit. Playdough or clay or coloring or pipe cleaners are things I’ve used. Both of my boys were most resistant at 5 & 7….my 5yo girl isn’t right now, but she isn’t fully participating the entire time; now that we have olders and momentum and habit, she just gets carried along with the tide. You’re at the starting off point and it will take time and effort and time to get that momentum going.
And, if his friends are bragging about their school to him, maybe you could point out a few things he could tell them. Point out how long they are at school? How little time outside they get? No comfortable couch?
Good advice, that.
Learning to like something takes a long-haul approach, for sure…
Home run, Brandy!
I remember resisting some of these thoughts myself early on, because it would mean *I* would have to grow and change in my own affections, and I didn’t think that was necessary (ie, I didn’t want to). Now, six years in, and my own affections are growing and expanding and I look forward to that continuing to happen more and more.
Yes, the “I” in teaching is so very difficult. We are often our own worst enemies, no?
Brilliant, convicting post! As a homeschool graduate, now homeschool mom I can see my own resistance in some aspects (Nature Study?! What in the WORLD is that? etc.) and my insistence that my children be introduced to some of my loves from a very early age (poetry, classical music, Shakespeare, Latin). The funny thing is that my homeschool mother didn’t introduce me to those things (with the possible exception of poetry). I grew to love them as an adult and determined that my children would learn about them as early as possible.
Anyway, lots of food for thought in this post. Thank you for helping fire up my brain cells this morning! 🙂
I really admire that you grew to love these things as an adult. I have had to force myself to do some things, also, and I find that exposure really *does* breed taste! But oh my is it hard!